Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund

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Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund

Message par CrashTheBuick » 22 Jan 2018 18:39

I am writing to find a way to report an Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund. I am having troubles finding a way to post it as a problem.
And, I am in protest!
This Game #338253 was a tie, yet manathirst was awarded the win.
The rules state "In the case of a tie, the winning player is the tied player with the most empty estate spaces, not the fewest."
In this case my opponent manathirst and I had 7 empty spaces, so we go to the next tie break rule.
This then states, the winner would be determined by who played last, which you can see by the History I (CrashTheBuick) played last. So, based upon the rule I should have one, having the secondary tie-break in the I played last. This is where the error then occurs.
The error is that as part of my last move I play a Boat, which layered me on top on manathirst in the ordering, so that when the play concludes and the tally begins, I am now on top, but I was not on top on the final play of the game.
What can we do to correct this? Please let me know if you need more information to address this error.
Thank you very much.
CrashTheBuick
Basically, a Boat was played in my final move which caused me to layer on top at the "end of the game counting". The rule states for the second tie-break the winner is the last one to play, which was me, as the History states.
Please let me know if you have questions, and I would appreciate correcting this game standing accordingly.
Game #338253
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Re: Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund

Message par PistolStar » 22 Jan 2018 18:54

I am not 100% sure, but I think the meaning of that 2nd tiebreaker is a bit different.

You are 2nd in turn order at the end of the game, so you lose the 2nd tiebreaker.
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Re: Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund

Message par lynkowsky » 22 Jan 2018 20:14

Well, not posting everywhere is the first thing to do. Then, you have to wait for a dev to have a look at it.
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Re: Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund

Message par Oldie » 22 Jan 2018 20:30

"Should there still be a tie, then the winning player is the tied player who
went later in turn order."

This is the official rule for the 2nd tiebraker.

This is NOT what you are saying "the player who played last". The winner is determined by the actual turn order (despite the fact there are no more rounds to play). If your tile is on the top, then your opponent is later in turn order (and the winner).
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Re: Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund

Message par frederic.moulis » 22 Jan 2018 20:37

Oldie a écrit :"Should there still be a tie, then the winning player is the tied player who
went later in turn order."

This is the official rule for the 2nd tiebraker.

This is NOT what you are saying "the player who played last". The winner is determined by the actual turn order (despite the fact there are no more rounds to play). If your tile is on the top, then your opponent is later in turn order (and the winner).

This is actually right, even if I find the english text quite ambiguous
So you lost this game, and this is normal. No bug.
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Re: Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund

Message par CrashTheBuick » 22 Jan 2018 22:44

I am in agreement that the 2nd tie-break is described as stated:
"Should there still be a tie, then the winning player is the tied player who went later in turn order." Indeed, this is the official rule for the 2nd tie-braker.
So, the situation is that at the beginning of the 5th Round of the 5th Phase, Player 1 made moves, and then Player 2 made moves and is later in turn order but lost. The issue is that in the 5th Round of the 5th Phase (which is the final play) Player 2 (after Player 1 made moves) laid a Boat advancing the Boat counter by 1, so that at the end of that turn the Boat counter sets on top. As we stated the rule is for the player who went later in turn order and should be applied based upon the details of the 5th Round of the 5th Phase, which Player 2 went later in turn order than Player 1. The rule should not be applied based upon standings at the end of the game (in essence the end of the 5th Round of the 5th Phase). It is a subtle but very important difference that should be thought about. Friends that I play the actual board with have all agreed, the tie break does not apply to the standing at the end of the game, but instead applies to the order of play in the 5th Round of the 5th Phase. I am happy to continue to explain the subtle difference as to when the "who went later in turn order" is applied. Thank you for the discussion and thoughts. :)
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Re: Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund

Message par frederic.moulis » 22 Jan 2018 22:49

The thing is : english rule is not the original one.

So I repeat : no bug. Boiteajeux's rule is the correct one
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Re: Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund

Message par CrashTheBuick » 23 Jan 2018 6:48

Is it to be formulated from the play of the 5th Round of the 5th Phase, as to whom went later in turn order on that round?
Can you please explain the basis for the application in a example with similar steps as I have given.
Under discussion, implementation of: "Should there still be a tie, then the winning player is the tied player who went later in turn order."
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Re: Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund

Message par PistolStar » 23 Jan 2018 7:28

CrashTheBuick a écrit :Is it to be formulated from the play of the 5th Round of the 5th Phase, as to whom went later in turn order on that round?
Can you please explain the basis for the application in a example with similar steps as I have given.
Under discussion, implementation of: "Should there still be a tie, then the winning player is the tied player who went later in turn order."

The german Rules are the official rules. The english translation of both tiebreakers is really bad.

In the german rules it says roughly translated: "If there is still a tie, the winning player is the player who IS (not went) later in turn order. No word in the german tiebreaker rules is written in the past.

Hope that helps.
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Re: Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund

Message par CrashTheBuick » 23 Jan 2018 7:34

It does, thank you. In trying to zero in when it is applied. Can you share your thought as to the scenario of placing a Boat in the final round and you are the later in turn order, but in doing so (playing the Boat) it shifts your position from being later in turn order after the game is over.
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Re: Error in 2nd Tie-Break for Die Burgen von Burgund

Message par PistolStar » 23 Jan 2018 7:50

CrashTheBuick a écrit :It does, thank you. In trying to zero in when it is applied. Can you share your thought as to the scenario of placing a Boat in the final round and you are the later in turn order, but in doing so (playing the Boat) it shifts your position from being later in turn order after the game is over.

I will try to explain it to you this way. Each tile in the game that gives you an immediate action is always resolved during the same turn. The same applies to your boat action. You went ahead in turn order during phase 5 round 5, thus before the game has ended. Whenever you place your boat it is mandatory for you to shift your boat marker one step further. Some other immediate tile actions are non-mandatory.
The game is over after all players actions. At this point (when the game was finally over) you were first in turn order. It doesn't matter if you was 2nd in turn order at the beginning of Phase 5 Round 5.
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