ratings non-active player

Re: ratings non-active player

Message par Paul Felz » 13 Mars 2019 17:52

lillosdos a écrit :ELO is an approximation of player strength, which follow basic statistical rule:
- The more you play, the more your ELO "regress to the mean" (the true value)
- The less you play, the less ELO reflects the true value. (lucky winning streak)
I think that having a lot of active games in the top position will encourage playing and subscriptions.

I understand that you want to reduce ELO of less active players with a "lucky winning streak". But at the same time, you also punish less active players with an "unlucky loosing streak". I cannot see how this is in any way fair.

Apart from this, ELO is used on this site only as a rough indication to allow players to match their skills. And it serves this purpose rather well. Of course, one can pay more or less attention to one's ELO score, but for what?

But here is a different, totally unrelated question :cool: : What happens to all those ELO points that players loose by not playing in time? Could it be that in certain games, the average ELO is now way below 1500 due to this effect?
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par frederic.moulis » 13 Mars 2019 19:38

Paul Felz a écrit :
lillosdos a écrit :ELO is an approximation of player strength, which follow basic statistical rule:
- The more you play, the more your ELO "regress to the mean" (the true value)
- The less you play, the less ELO reflects the true value. (lucky winning streak)
I think that having a lot of active games in the top position will encourage playing and subscriptions.

I understand that you want to reduce ELO of less active players with a "lucky winning streak". But at the same time, you also punish less active players with an "unlucky loosing streak". I cannot see how this is in any way fair.

Apart from this, ELO is used on this site only as a rough indication to allow players to match their skills. And it serves this purpose rather well. Of course, one can pay more or less attention to one's ELO score, but for what?

But here is a different, totally unrelated question :cool: : What happens to all those ELO points that players loose by not playing in time? Could it be that in certain games, the average ELO is now way below 1500 due to this effect?

Average ELO is between 1441 (Agricola) and 1524 (Shazamm)
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par lillosdos » 14 Mars 2019 2:39

Paul Felz a écrit :
lillosdos a écrit :ELO is an approximation of player strength, which follow basic statistical rule:
- The more you play, the more your ELO "regress to the mean" (the true value)
- The less you play, the less ELO reflects the true value. (lucky winning streak)
I think that having a lot of active games in the top position will encourage playing and subscriptions.

I understand that you want to reduce ELO of less active players with a "lucky winning streak". But at the same time, you also punish less active players with an "unlucky loosing streak". I cannot see how this is in any way fair.

Apart from this, ELO is used on this site only as a rough indication to allow players to match their skills. And it serves this purpose rather well. Of course, one can pay more or less attention to one's ELO score, but for what?

But here is a different, totally unrelated question :cool: : What happens to all those ELO points that players loose by not playing in time? Could it be that in certain games, the average ELO is now way below 1500 due to this effect?

I don't know how exactly is accounted ELO for time-out players. I assume that it counts as a lost game for who time-out, while the others get the same points that they would have got if no time-out happened.

Still, if you observe the reduction of average ELO over time, this would be the most clear sign of non-active players, which drain points from the pool.
In fact, in the historical ELO-rated game, the chess, the average ELO always increases over time.
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par lillosdos » 14 Mars 2019 2:46

Paul Felz a écrit :
lillosdos a écrit :ELO is an approximation of player strength, which follow basic statistical rule:
- The more you play, the more your ELO "regress to the mean" (the true value)
- The less you play, the less ELO reflects the true value. (lucky winning streak)
I think that having a lot of active games in the top position will encourage playing and subscriptions.

I understand that you want to reduce ELO of less active players with a "lucky winning streak". But at the same time, you also punish less active players with an "unlucky loosing streak". I cannot see how this is in any way fair.

Apart from this, ELO is used on this site only as a rough indication to allow players to match their skills. And it serves this purpose rather well. Of course, one can pay more or less attention to one's ELO score, but for what?

But here is a different, totally unrelated question :cool: : What happens to all those ELO points that players loose by not playing in time? Could it be that in certain games, the average ELO is now way below 1500 due to this effect?

Indeed, both winning and losing streak combined with non-activity, have the same outcome in lowering ELO average because they worse each other like a funnel. I know that is not easy to demonstrate just by words, but you can trust me, I am interested in statistic and science.

Just think that is very very fair!! In fact, losing streakers will benefit by losing more points!! Because the points they will earn back-playing would be more!!

Best
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par lynkowsky » 14 Mars 2019 8:51

lillosdos a écrit :I don't know how exactly is accounted ELO for time-out players. I assume that it counts as a lost game for who time-out, while the others get the same points that they would have got if no time-out happened.

It counts as a lost game for the one who timed-out, it does not count for the winner. That is probable what explains most of the lowering of Elo average.
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par covadis » 14 Mars 2019 9:57

Just to give so more element to lillosdos stat :
I don't care ELO ! I just use it to known if I progress or not. And I don't think that if I don't play for a day, I lost a lot of knowledge about a game !
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par frederic.moulis » 14 Mars 2019 10:13

frederic.moulis a écrit :If the player comes back later, he will retrieve his former ELO, and this is normal. If his level has lowered because he has not played for a long time, he will lose games and his ELO will be lowered mechanically.

... and hence, he will lose more ELO because his current ELO is too high.
It works as well with lucky winners !

lillosdos a écrit :Just think that is very very fair!! In fact, losing streakers will benefit by losing more points!! Because the points they will earn back-playing would be more!!

Thank you lillosdos, because here, you are saying that current boiteajeux_ELO is very very fair !

:geek:
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par harrow_rest » 14 Mars 2019 12:37

lynkowsky a écrit :
lillosdos a écrit :I don't know how exactly is accounted ELO for time-out players. I assume that it counts as a lost game for who time-out, while the others get the same points that they would have got if no time-out happened.

It counts as a lost game for the one who timed-out, it does not count for the winner. That is probable what explains most of the lowering of Elo average.

Hi,

& why you don't give like +5 or even +1 elo symbolic & count a win for the winner for wasting 1 month of their time ^^

ty
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par frederic.moulis » 14 Mars 2019 12:41

harrow_rest a écrit :Hi,
& why you don't give like +5 or even +1 elo symbolic
ty

Because this has absolutely no sense at all.

harrow_rest a écrit :& count a win for the winner for wasting 1 month of their time ^^

Well, honestly, do you want to be counted as a winner although you did not really win the game ? How can we justify this ?
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par harrow_rest » 14 Mars 2019 19:09

It's just like a abandon ! same thing for me
if the guys wana lose the game without giving me my win he can do this : )
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par frederic.moulis » 14 Mars 2019 19:38

hmmm. yes, ok. but if he does that, just blacklist him
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par harrow_rest » 14 Mars 2019 21:46

ohh rly can we do this ? :D amazing how
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par covadis » 14 Mars 2019 23:08

harrow_rest a écrit :ohh rly can we do this ? :D amazing how

In premium, you can blacklist a player
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par harrow_rest » 15 Mars 2019 0:13

ahh...

I'm a poor guy :/
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Re: ratings non-active player

Message par frederic.moulis » 15 Mars 2019 1:52

:) yes, or ignore him (you will probably remember his name)
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