Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replacement?

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Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replacement?

Message par Vienneau » 17 Oct 2016 22:15

I lost 70 ranking points all of a sudden and I think it's because I got kicked out of a 3-day turn limit game where I was a replacement.

1) I had marked myself as on vacation, does this not matter when it comes to the 3-day limit?
2) You lose 70 points if you get kicked? Can this be posted somewhere so people can know ahead of time?
3) I lose point for getting kicked out of a replacement game?!?! That doesn't feel right. I have been fun jumping into high-ranking replacement games but I won't do that any longer if this is a risk.

I'd been working hard to get those 70 points and was just 4 points shy of 2000 once again. Getting knocked down to 1926 on turn 13/14 of a replacement game that isn't supposed to impact my rating is really frustrating.

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Re: Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replaceme

Message par lynkowsky » 17 Oct 2016 22:32

1) No, as if you wish a game to be fast, you do not want it to be stalled by your opponents vacations

2) if you get kicked, you lose points as if you were losing the game. To avoid people to voluntary stall lost games (yes, it happens sometimes...)

3) Well, I know the admins thought about changing this point. I do not know if it will be change, or not

About your points, well, in a few games the difference will disappear (with lower rating, you will win more points or lose less points).
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Re: Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replaceme

Message par Vienneau » 17 Oct 2016 22:49

1) Then what does Vacation do?
2) I understand and it makes sense...if it wasn't a replacement game where points don't matter!
3) I hope they change the rule. I suspect it will be too late to help me.

Going from 1926 to 1996 isn't a matter of a few games. Above 1900, it's pretty tough to go up. I've probably spent the last 3+ months on it? Gaining 5 points for 2nd or 25 for 1st while losing 70 for 4th makes it tricky!
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Re: Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replaceme

Message par Josquin » 17 Oct 2016 23:53

@1:
It's a polite way to indicate that you'll play slow, and probably that you won't play at all. But this won't take the game on a hold. Now, two possibilities may occur:
1) Your opponents (and all of them) are quite, calm and polite players who won't care to wait 2 or 3 weeks (months...) more to finish the game (Yes, imagine a 5-player Agricola game where one player after another takes his 15 days vacancy... ). Then you are lucky, they cherish the idea that you are passing some nice days without playing with them - and they seem to be happy about, so you aren't kicked out, the beards of all are growing fine and everyone finishes as Abe Lincoln :wink:
2) One player simply wants to finish without waiting for his beard growing (or his grave to be dug ...) - and so you're out. With all the consequences. :!:

To have it clear: You have to make a better planning for your holidays... :mrgreen: or simpy avoid games which will ask you to play often and in quick reaction.
It's like the azur bonds. There is only one rule, one law and one punishment in the BàJ-land:
- You have to play within the time-limit, having holidays or not doesn't matter. That's the law.
- If you don't, you may be kicked out. That's the punishment.
- Calm, slow-playing and comprehensive playing partners are not to be expected in every game you join. That's a rule to be assumed... :clown:
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Re: Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replaceme

Message par Vienneau » 18 Oct 2016 4:50

I don't mind getting kicked from the game if people are keen to keep it moving. I mind that I lost ranking as a Replacement.

Kick me out, but if I'm a replacement, don't penalize me because I tried to help.
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Re: Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replaceme

Message par Josquin » 18 Oct 2016 9:59

That's understandable.

@admins: What's the admins point of view about?
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Re: Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replaceme

Message par diplojak » 18 Oct 2016 19:59

lynkowsky a écrit :
3) Well, I know the admins thought about changing this point. I do not know if it will be change, or not

not really. everyone must respect the pace of play, even when replacing. However I thought about taking the holiday into account, but it will need to keep track of the holidays, to avoid a permanent vacation.
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Re: Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replaceme

Message par SuperBrit » 20 Oct 2016 21:36

For what it's worth, I used to join games as a replacement because I thought it was a sociable and helpful thing to do. Needless to say I have been in many games that could not have been completed without the help of a replacement. Yet I no longer help others out because I would lose ELO if I was unable to make a move. In other words, I feel a hypocrite because I still want others to help finish my games, but I won't be a replacement myself. Not a very satisfactory state of affairs.

Losing ELO because I don't make my move is one thing, fair enough. Losing ELO as a replacement discourages good manners.
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Re: Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replaceme

Message par Striker » 20 Oct 2016 22:46

I had assumed that if you could not win ELO as a replacement player, then you could not lose ELO as a replacement player either.

Replacement players should still respect the pace of the game but, if they also need to be replaced because of slow play from then, do not let their initial good manners be penalised by ELO loss. I agree with SuperBrit that you want to encourage replacement players so they should have some protection should they find themselves unable to make a move in time, especially if the game goes on several months. Otherwise others may follow SuperBrit's example (and I am not being critical of SuperBrit as it is a logical thought process under the current circumstances) by not putting themselves forward as a replacement in the future.

If you do allow holidays to be taken into account, I'm sure many players will just put themselves on 'holiday' to 'protect' themselves. Holiday should be used by a player to indicate to their opponents that they might play slow(er) during that period. I personally would not replace a player on holiday but that is just personal, unfortunately I'm sure others have and will continue to do so.
There are 10 types of people in the world; those that understand binary and those that don't.
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Re: Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replaceme

Message par diplojak » 21 Oct 2016 9:22

so what if someone joins every game waiting for a replacement, just because he can, and then stops playing?

I had assumed that if you could not win ELO as a replacement player, then you could not lose ELO as a replacement player either.

you can not lose Elo as a replacement. if you play. We talk about a penalty for being slow, which has nothing to do with the fact that you started the game or not.

If you do allow holidays to be taken into account, I'm sure many players will just put themselves on 'holiday' to 'protect' themselves.

that's why if I do this, you won't be allowed to take more than 5(?) weeks in a year.

Holiday should be used by a player to indicate to their opponents that they might play slow(er) during that period. I personally would not replace a player on holiday but that is just personal, unfortunately I'm sure others have and will continue to do so.

It was the purpose of the feature. Unfortunately experience shows that many people are less fair than you.
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Re: Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replaceme

Message par SuperBrit » 21 Oct 2016 19:42

The point that striker and I are both emphasising, is that the conditions for a replacements are asymmetric. Play on time and maybe even win, get nothing. Get kicked out and it's worse than if you had never joined in.

To overcome the problems with joining in and playing slow or getting kicked out, why not determine the number of games a player can join in (without subscription) according to the number of times they have completed a game as a replacement. That way, at least the non-subscribers are given an incentive to be helpful without having their ELO affected.
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Re: Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replaceme

Message par Ninolia » 16 Avr 2017 2:53

Is there still no decision on this?
I joined this game to help them finish it:
http://boiteajeux.net/jeux/agr/partie.php?id=2594843
But THEY are incredibly slow, so I was planning on abandoning it when my turn comes up.
(BTW, it should be possible to abandon anytime without penalty if you are a replacement)
No time limit set on that game, so it is 1 month with deadline coming up in a week.

It is quite insane that I should lose ranking for dropping out or getting kicked out as a replacement.
Remaining players can just get another replacement. No point in putting that pressure on the volunteer.
I vote this is corrected or the replacement system is killed altogether. More ppl will make this mistake.
Who could guess the replacement rules are this screwed up?
I certainly will never replace in a game again if I can lose ranking for any reason.
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Re: Losing 70 ranking points for getting kicked as Replaceme

Message par dayholly86 » 02 Août 2020 2:19

I wish there was a way to be a replacement for one turn only. You're not busy, so you hop in, complete the turn, hop out.
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